Pre-ECN Book Club: Questions for Kelly, about Readicide, or About Reading in General

[Jim Burke]

What is on your mind about reading instruction, reading, or literacy in general? For those of you who have read or are reading Readicide already, what questions or ideas would you like the book club to consider? Finally, if you have some questions or comments specifically for Kelly that you think are related in some way to or would otherwise enrich the discussion of Readicide, jot those down, too.

[pat]

When your school district is embracing a guided reading program which incorporates reading letter journals, post-it notes throughout the students' books for their "reflections", independent reading for even your lowest groups for 30 min. per day, and you are told "this is the program, now do it, we don't want to hear any complaining", what is a teacher to do?? When your reading supervisor makes unannounced visits and tells you that the program you are doing does not conform to the district program and announces she will "be back" to be sure you are implementing it as required is very disheartening. I am a special ed inclusion teacher, and I see the glazed look on my students' faces when we announce it is reading/writing time, and hear the moaning and groaning. Our end-of-year checklist is filled with DRA testing for the 2nd time in one year, a Writing Reflection piece, a Reading Reflection piece, as well as 6 samples of writing which are to move up with the student to the next grade level and become part of their cumulative folder. I bought this book online weeks ago and have just started reading it in preparation for this online discussion, and I am considering leaving a copy or two in my teacher's room to see how others respond to it.

[Gayle K. Hobbs]

Love it! The rebellious American spirit is still alive!!!!!

[Jim Burke]

This question is actually from Kathryn LaPointe:

I read Readicide, and couldn't stop talking about it! I can't wait for the discussion to begin!

My lingering question, a general one, is: How do we find (and firmly state) the place Writing About Reading has in our Reading assessment of children? I use the DRA2, and believe in it, but realize it is a measurement of comprehension via the student's written expression. It is a good starting point, and again as a growth measure. But I must teach the component parts first (how to write a summary being one big monster!); how to find what's "most important in a story" another. As much as I'm devoted to Book Clubs and authentic discussions, I feel compelled to include written components. I hope to open the discussion to get some clarity on this topic.

[Linda704]

We also use DRA (DRA2 is an option in K-3) and teachers frequently bemoan the writing load of the assessment at grades 4 & 5. In many cases, it's not even the writing skills which are the problem, but a lack of motivation. You can tell students they need to write more, but you can't make them. (Hmmm, sequel, "Writicide?")

[Gayle K. Hobbs]

School Libraries, which used to be havens for avid readers, have become extra spaces for every extra-curricular activity that needs a meeting room. Our district libraries are closed repeatedly for meetings, after school in-services, testing and even end of year "cultural exchanges" (parties) The students can no longer just 'Hang out" surrounded by a plethora of enticing titles that call to them via an unexpected side glance. They can no longer sit in a comfort zone, thoroughly involved in several chapters of an imaginary world. The "book flood" you mentioned on page 53 can be one way we as teachers can assist our librarians with providing recreational reading to our students. What else can we do to help our new generation of readers find that haven?

[Mindy J]

I just finished Readicide online (thanks for making it available) and would like to share it with every teacher. Some questions and thoughts I would like to discuss:

1. I totally agree that classics are still relevant today. The ideas that make a story speak to so many ring true because they are about life. And those basic human ideas will be true 100 years ago, 50 years ago and today. However, I'm still unconvinced that any classic has to be a "must read". Since the ideas in classics are basic human ideas, you will also find those in books written today that also have the added benefit of being even more relevant to the children's lives. So if reading is about finding those ideas and "practicing life", why do we have to read the classics? Other than for a shared experience, which we can also get through a shared modern book?

2. I like the idea of reading in broad chunks for flow, and revisiting smaller chunks for more in-depth analyzing. Do you do this with every assigned book? And leave the just-for-pleasure reading totally alone? If so, do you find students groaning when you introduce a book you're reading together because they know it's going to be full of activities to "do"?

3. One of my questions that I keep coming back to is this: Once a child can decode (and there are no issues like dyslexia), and they've learned that reading is thinking, are comprehension problems simply a lack of motivation or vocab/prior knowledge? They're not motivated enough to look up words or try to figure out words they don't know. They're not motivated enough to "pay attention" to what they're reading. Which is often caused by us forcing them to read something they have absolutely no interest in.

Or they read something like idioms, but have no previous experience with it, so they don't even realize it shouldn't be read literally. Or they know nothing about the topic, so can't even picture what's going on. So instead of teaching reading strategies, shouldn't we really be teaching life? The more they know the better they'll read.

Reading problems seem to me to be more of a matter of too little knowledge/understanding of the world, and not a problem with not using the strategies. When a "bad" reader is handed a text that he likes that uses language and topics he understands, he is using the strategies and has no problem. He is a good reader then. He does know and use the strategies, he just isn't always able to because he doesn't have enough knowledge of the world, or is reading something for someone else that he's not really into.

Looking forward to bouncing around ideas with others.

[Margaret Hartshorn]

I got the book and loaned it to a colleague before reading it myself. She is captivated by it and I can't wait to get it back! In the meantime, here are some basic questions that my colleagues and I have been chewing on about our high school students and reading:

1. When they aren't reading, is it because they can't or they won't?

2. What might be getting in the way of today's high school students reading the books for English class?

3. I believe that it takes real time to read, so where do we find the time for students to really read?

4. How can we teachers scaffold the reading of a text in order to allow students to construct a legitimate "reading" of the text?

5. How can we differentiate-between/teach-a-combination of the text meaning whatever the student brings to the text and a reading of the text that is grounded in the text itself? I find there are students who want me to tell them what the text means (the one right answer) and there are students who believe that the text can mean whatever they want it to mean. (those being two extremes)

6. How do we combat a culture that is proud that "I haven't read a single book for English class in four years"?

Margaret

[Jim Burke]

Some might find this podcast from some earlier blog-interviews (blogview? interblog?!) with Kelly on Readicide interesting.

[Maggie Wilson]

I greatly enjoyed the book. I was happy to see that much of what I have instinctually felt was right about teaching English is backed up by research and your book. I am sharing it with my special ed co-teacher and we are planning for next school year. 95% of my students are very reluctant readers, and some of my best teaching moments are hooking them on a book and discussing it with them. There is nothing like making a connection with a student over a great book! I am a huge believer in voluntary SSR in the English classroom.

I have a question about the Article of the Week. Do you have your students write a response to it, or is the close reading the notes that they make on the article? Do you ever have your students write a summary/reflection of the article? I am in need of providing more writing opportunities to my students and see this as a possibility.

[NG]

Questions:

1. I believe reading is important (actually essential!). I But I wonder if everyone is a reader? I have had students who just never turned on to reading. We would try books that matched their interests, graphic novels, comic books/strips, magazines, self-selected books, student-selected goals. But nothing clicked. What do you do? I know several adult friends who said they never read when they were in school -- it was a habit that started after high school. At times, I feel guilty when I tell a student that they need to be reading.

2. What do you do with the students who always choose books that (decoding-wise) are too hard? They are always reading...but are they benefitting from it? Discussions about Just Right books, suggestions to listen to the cd/audio/computer versions are ignored. Some of these students are able to understand what they are reading -- even though their oral reading is full of substitutions (that don't make any sense), omissions and insertions. Others have little understanding and soon abandon the books.

[Clix]

I'm remembering a Voicethread discussion that Bill Ferriter hosted about Readicide.

I think what I'm struggling with is the academic 50%. I want to teach students to look at the text closely and imagine the author's choices and reasons behind them as they read. That means we'll be going pretty slowly and definitely in danger of "overteaching." I want to make sure I avoid it.

[Ron Shapiro]

I agree with you. In preparing pre-AP sophomores for AP Language and Composition, an in-depth introduction to close reading is necessary. I agree that it need not be practiced with classic literature; however, at the same time, I also believe the writer's style shoud challenge the students as well. Consequently, though students may certainly be able to learn as much about character from reading a book by John Green or even J.K. Rowling, is it the same experience as, say, A Separate Peace or Othello? Soem students have termed YA fiction as brain candy because it tastes good while reading it;however, like candy, it feels like empty calories once the book's last page has been read. Of course, much adult fiction is like this as well. So though I like some of Kelly's ideas regarding annotation and going for the jugular, the essence of a text as opposed to killing it (i.e. teachers working with A Scarlet Letter and its chockfulness of symbolism), I wonder where the balance is?